Curriculum
As much as we talk about it everywhere and as much as I hammer its importance in this very blog, I'm not sure that our prospective students always realize just how important their high school curriculum choices are in the admission review process. As I complete "second reads" on about 200 applications this week, I have been disappointed with certain students who have performed well "GPA-wise" but have not challenged themselves in the classroom or - worst of all - have decided to "take senior year off" by dropping out of challenging courses or not completing a fourth year of all five core academic subject areas.
Simply put, strength of curriculum is the most important factor in admission decisions at Providence College. Obviously it's not the only factor, but it's our starting point - and it's tough for a student to get any support from our counseling staff if their curriculum isn't up to par (no matter how strong their GPA is or what they bring to the table outside of the classroom).
First and foremost, we are looking for students to take four years of all five core academic subject areas: English, Math, Natural Science, Social Science/History, and Foreign Language. This is the first step to having a strong high school curriculum that will prepare a student to succeed in the Liberal Arts curriculum that we have at PC. Ending a math sequence with Algebra 2 junior year, taking only three years of science, and stopping foreign language study with Spanish 2 in the sophomore year are not good curriculum decisions. First of all, these choices mean that a student is less prepared to succeed at PC... and secondly, they immediately put the student at a disadvantage in an applicant pool with students who have completed four years of the core subject areas.
Completing four years of the core subject areas is the first step, but certainly not the last in forming a strong high school curriculum. We are also looking for students who have challenged themselves by taking advanced and Honors-level courses where appropriate throughout high school. When we come across a student with strong grades in a subject (let's say all "A's" in English) and maybe strong test scores as well in that area (a 650-700 SAT Critical Reading and/or Writing score), we are expecting the student to have taken advantage of the Honors/AP courses that their high school offers in English... If this type of student has taken the basic college-prep level for all four years when Honors/AP courses are available, it is difficult to support this student's application - the student had the opportunity to do so much more by taking a higher-level course during high school, but took the easy way out... despite having the ability to succeed (based on their English grades) in the higher-level courses.
One important point I should make on curriculum: a student's "strength of curriculum" is always going to be looked at in the context of the high school they are coming from. In other words, a student will never be penalized for not taking a course that their high school doesn't offer. If a student attends a high school that only offers 2 AP courses and the student takes both of them, they may have taken the most demanding curriculum available to them. But if a student attends a high school that offers more opportunity for academic challenge, we want to see that student take advantage of it appropriately - challenging him/herself at a level in which they can also succeed in the classroom.
As all of you seniors who have already applied are beyond the point of changing your course schedules, this posting is aimed more toward juniors. As your 11th grade year draws to a close and you select your courses for senior year, remember that continuing to take a challenging curriculum is very important (and continuing with that 4th year of Spanish just might be a better choice than taking a study hall). If you have questions about curriculum, please feel free to post them here!
Have a great weekend!
Comments
I am currently a junior and my schedule this year only includes one honors course. However, next year I will be eligible to take AP or honors in every subject and I plan to so long as my counselor approves. My question is, will the strength of my senior schedule make up for my junior schedule?
Thanks in advance.
Posted by: Gabriella | February 29, 2008 4:15 PM
Hi Scott,
I'm a senior and I applied to Providence regular decision. This year (senior year) I wasn't able to take a 4th year of science because it didn't fit into my schedule. Will I be penalized for something that I had no control over?
Also, thank you so much for writing these blogs, they're really helpful to the admissions process!
- Kathleen
Posted by: Kathleen | February 29, 2008 4:35 PM
There's one facet of this that you didn't comment on. This is how the admission counselors evaluate a student who challenges him or herself by taking honors or AP classes and gets a B or even a C. Your commentary back in the fall about the process of unweighting GPAs (you re-calculate GPAs by eliminating the weighting for honors or AP some secondary schools use) explained the process and added, something along the lines of, getting an A is always better than a B in those classes. Now that admissions counselors are reading and judging applications, what process is used to evaluate an A in college prep vs. a B or C in honors or AP? Some schools indicate that they typically view a B in honors or AP as equivalent to an A in college prep (along the lines of weighting the secondary schools do). If that's true, then, it seems that there's a disincentive for a student to challenge him or herself by taking honors/AP and receiving a B (or C) rather than sticking with college prep and getting an A. It would seem the idea of a challenge is to stretch the student to their capability which can mean a B, yet it appears that they get no "credit" by admissions counselors for doing it.
Posted by: rick | February 29, 2008 5:11 PM
Hi Gabriella,
One thing we certainly pay attention to as we review applications is "progression" - both in academic challenge and performance. We always love to see students who increase the rigor of their curriculum as they progress through their high school years. So, the short answer to your question is yes...
Also keep in mind that we consider curriculum in the context of what was available to each student in his or her specific high school... At some high schools, students are "tracked" into a certain level course based on a placement exam that they take prior to freshman year... at other schools, students may be limited to 2 or 3 advanced-level courses per year... These are limitations on advanced/honors level courses that we always take into consideration as we review applications...
Posted by: Scott Seseske | March 1, 2008 4:16 PM
...and speaking of limitations...
Kathleen,
Your situation is one we see a number of times each year, especially at smaller high schools where there might only be one section of a specific course. A student will never be penalized for not being able to take a course due to a scheduling conflict - as long as we are aware of it!
Thanks to both of you for writing!!
*Scott
Posted by: Scott Seseske | March 1, 2008 4:30 PM
Hi Rick,
Let's start with this (for the people who haven't been reading since the fall): the average invited student's "unweighted" GPA is an A-minus in an Honors-level curriculum... But that A-minus is simply the average - and it is important to remember that we DON'T accept every student who has an A-minus ... and we DO accept plenty of students who have a B-plus GPA. GPAs are ALWAYS looked at in the context of curriculum.
We do NOT simply equate a "B" in an Honors course to an "A" in a College Prep (CP) course - it's not that simple. Instead, we look at the ENTIRE four years of high school as a whole - looking at performance in each subject area and overall in the CONTEXT of what courses the student has taken. One thing we always stress is the importance of "appropriate challenge" - we want students to take challenging courses but also to be successful in them. Taking an Honors-level schedule but having a "C" level GPA does not make a student an attractive candidate in our review process.
So, how do we evaluate a "C" in Honors/AP? You can't answer that question without asking some others. What subject is the "C" in? What does the student want to major in? What does the student have for other grades in that subject area? AND - how many "C's" are we talking about? Do we admit students who have a "C" or two in Honors/AP-level courses on their transcripts? Absolutely. Do we invite students who have 10 "C's" in Honors-level courses? No, we don't. Remember, the "average" PC invited student has an "A-minus" IN AN HONORS/AP CURRICULUM.
What, then, is the incentive for a student to take an Honors-level course and get a "B" rather than taking a CP course and getting an "A" in it? The answer is this: curriculum is THE most important part of our review process - and I can't tell you how many times in our review and in our Committee meetings students with an "A-minus/A" GPA but only a College Prep curriculum are NOT invited. Due to the depth of our applicant pool, students with CP curriculums are simply not academically competitive. A student who has performed at a "B+" level in an Honors/AP schedule is much more attractive to us than one who has an "A-minus" but only in a CP schedule.
Thanks for posting!
Posted by: Scott Seseske | March 1, 2008 4:40 PM
I already sent my application in, but I did not take all five core subjects. Instead of taking a fourth year of a language, I took 2 classes for my major instead of one(History).
Will this hurt me? There is nothing I can do now, I'm just curious. Thanks.
P.S This blog is really helpful.
Posted by: Anonymous | March 1, 2008 10:55 PM
Hi Scott,
I'm a junior and planning to take three or four AP courses next year. Does Providence accept AP credits, and if so, what is the minimum score required?
Kat
Posted by: Katherine | March 3, 2008 4:29 PM
Hi Scott,
I am a senior and I applied regular decision. This year, my schedule seems light because I had to make up for credits I needed to graduate, and there were a couple of other factors that affected my schedule. For instance, I took honors English for three years but this year I dropped down to an H2 level course because I didn't feel I could handle AP English where I was taking AP Calculus and Spanish Honors as well. Also, I didn't take a science because it has always been a struggle for me and it wasn't particularly related to my major. I included an extra letter in my application explaining these conflicts.
Is my seemingly light schedule going to hurt me when a decision is made? Thank you.
Posted by: Shannon | March 4, 2008 3:23 PM
Hey Scott
I wanted to tell you how helpful your blogs are - I am also an 11th grader and this is very helpful and straightforward information. There is so much pressure from parents and friends to pick certain classes but it is good to have someone who knows what colleges are looking for who can give advice. Thanks!
Posted by: Erin | March 7, 2008 6:05 PM
My high school only offers 4 years of Spanish classes and I am taking Spanish 4 this year as a junior. So I wouldn't be penalized for not having Spanish senior year, right?
Posted by: B.M. | March 8, 2008 2:18 PM
Hi Mr. Seseske,
I'm a senior and I applied regular decision too. I have not taken four years of the same language because of scheduling conflicts, however, I have had a language every year. Latin, French, and Spanish 1 & 2. I was wondering how this will affect my application's strength.
Thanks so much for all your help,
Brigid
Posted by: Brigid | March 12, 2008 3:32 PM
Hi Brigid,
Thanks for posting. While we would always prefer to see four years of the same language, we do not penalize students in the review process for scheduling conflicts - as long as the student or their guidance counselor makes us aware of the scheduling difficulties in the application!
*Scott
Posted by: Scott Seseske | March 14, 2008 8:11 AM